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Recorded live in Cannes at the Cannes Lions international festival of creativity it’s the MM+M Podcast in partnership with IQVIA, and Butler Till. We take a very patient-centered approach all of our clients take a very patient centered approach.
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And I think as an industry if we’re not trying to reach Healthcare equity. We’re doing everybody a disservice get rid of the 19% who are not likely to ride Scripps but find the 19% who are going to write scripts who may not have written scripts before.
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Hi everyone, welcome you’re listening to the MM+M Podcast.
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I’m Steve Madden I’m the editor-in-chief of MM+M.
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and I am here in fabulous cam and the South of France for the Cannes Lions Festival
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And today I’m talking with my guests from IQVIA and Butler Till.
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from Butler Till
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Kimberly Jones the president and CEO
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And from IQVIA, Edith Hopkinson she’s the head of digital strategy for IQVIA digital enablement Kimberly Edith welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having us.
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Good morning. Thank you.
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We wanted to get together to talk a little bit about the Healthcare marketing trends that you’re seeing coming out of out of the festival.
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I have to think we’ll be talking a little bit about AI
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but there are some other trends that you started to see emerge.
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What’s the first major trend that you’re seeing here?
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What I find.
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Some interesting is that personalization seems to be a trend not just in Healthcare but really across all the sessions. I’ve had the pleasure to attend.
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And so when we think about personalising hcp and DTC experiences.
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in Healthcare
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it’s super super important to have a deep understanding of your audience.
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Where you’re going to reach them and with what messages?
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And when we think about hcp engagement in particular. I think a key to engagement is.
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The content and there’s been a lot of talk about content and to your point Steve especially as it relates to AI and AI generated content.
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But where do you start?
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How do you understand your hcp’s and your DTC audience to deliver that right message at the right time?
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It’s so true Edith and when I think about hcp marketing. I think we need to take similar approaches that we naturally do when we’re trying to reach consumers to reach those health care professionals.
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Believe it or not. They are human too so at Butler till we often talk about like finding what we call the blue Jean moment.
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So finding our health care professionals when they’re actually living their day-to-day life outside of their clinical professions.
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One it allows us to make sure there’s consistent messaging between the DTC messages that we’re sending to those that they’re.
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Reaching directly to them so that there’s that consistency and messaging and then also thinking about.
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Just how to reach them in unexpected ways.
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And you mentioned the personalization Aspect understanding the audience.
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The hcp audience in particular, just like you would take the attempt to really understand your target audience for consumers is really important so we like to segment our hcp’s understand their script writing behaviors understanding those that are most likely to write scripts for your particular brand.
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oftentimes understanding which hcp’s might not be interested in writing a particular Script so that you can eliminate waste and
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continue to maintain relevancy.
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And that helps with the Salesforce helps them manage their time more effectively.
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to kimberly’s point on consistency of messaging that’s a super important inside Steve because
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If you have a field force calling on an hcp delivering a different message than their receiving digital and digitally can be through social platforms it can be through email.
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You have to have that consistent message and that informed message and sequential messages so you’re bringing that hcp along a brand journey across multiple channels.
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Very true and I love to think about Salesforce effectiveness as part of the overall campaign. I think understanding that areas in which hcps are living.
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What are the areas that?
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People are writing the most scripts and geographically being able to target messages in some cases, you might have white space where you don’t actually have a lot of Salesforce coverage that can allow you.
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To send maybe perhaps even more messages to the hcps that are working in those areas and if it’s the reverse where you have a really saturated market you can be very targeted with those messages and I love the idea of doing this sequential messaging.
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So that you can reach.
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healthcare professionals along their journey
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when it comes to building awareness for a particular brand or product and then creating the affinity and hopefully encouraging them at some point to take action and write the Script so this is all coming in the form of data right. You know you you’re tracking your digital behaviour.
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And you’re getting on this information and what do you do with it? How do you analyse it?
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So we’ve been really lucky to partner with.
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Great partners like iqvia.
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To get access to that wonderful rich data that helps us understand.
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The writing behaviour of our hcps so again we can understand the propensity of hcps to write a script or even write scripts in particular category for get about your brand.
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So that we can use that data to target more effectively.
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For example we were able to do a study where we identified that we were reaching about 19% of an audience that was not likely to write a script. So if you think about that in terms of waste.
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That’s 19% of your Media dollars that you can redirect.
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To areas that it’s more likely to be.
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effective
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and when we worked with Kimberly on some of these programs we included behavioral data.
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so beyond scripts understanding what hcps are researching across the medical ecosystem, so
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get rid of the 19% who are not likely to write scripts but find the 19% who are going to write scripts who may not have written scripts before.
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I love the concept of the digital white space opportunity. We see a lot of Brands who are
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focusing on a digital first strategy because it’s a lot more cost-effective than the Salesforce
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so, how can we
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Both reach hcps in a digital only manner but for the hcps who are going to have a Salesforce interaction.
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We talk about pre-call warming we like to digitally warm up that hcp before the Salesforce interaction to make that more effective.
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We actually studied this we looked at the impact of
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a digital plus a Salesforce interaction versus a Salesforce interaction alone and so a 20% increase in scripts.
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With the digital and the Salesforce in combination is so interesting because I think oftentimes.
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When we are trying to reach acps.
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We we take a different approach, but it really is a very similar sales Funnel so if you don’t take the time to build awareness you’re never going to get to that point of affinity so to eat this point you know you have digital messaging you reach them with messages that are relevant to them at the right time and then the sales walks in the door and they’re that much more likely one to take the call and then two to actually consider the product.
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So okay, so that’s that’s one trend. You know a lot. We’ve heard a lot about personalization for for hcps.
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What’s the next trend?
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that you’re you’re seeing a lot of
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I think in general marketing science and the use of data first Party data in particular as we continue to talk about the deprecation of cookies has become really important.
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To all brands especially brands in the Healthcare space and Kentucky popular.
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I love it. Yes.
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That’s one thing that you can’t escape at can as the conversation of the cookie list future and so again great data partners like iqvia. Can really help with that because we can take.
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First Party data from the Advertiser from our Healthcare brands and make sure that it’s a richer experience and reaching their audiences and so we take approaches like CRM and making sure that we’ve got the data. That’s more usable for targeting purposes and again reaching our audiences when they’re most likely to be receptive to a message.
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and
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building
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the Dead that’s
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all
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is via challenge
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Special have a value exchange.
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On your website for an hcp to register or a patient to register to give you consent and so it’s it’s something that’s a very top of mind both for publishers and for.
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For brand managers as they think about the content on their sites and I’m sure Steve you know this yourself right with all the great content that you produce.
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You have a real strong value exchange for any visitor to your site. I like to think so yes.
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And all of our publishers are in the same in the same boat. What do we do in a cookie less world? Well, you might have a very rich opted in first party database or you might be focusing now on building that.
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Yes, that’s very true which I think in a lot of ways allows for even more creativity because it really forces you to think about what your audience is going to find valuable, but the other important piece of data of course.
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Is organising it?
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the other challenge so we spend a lot of time counseling our clients about how to wrangle how to clean how to make sure your data is secure because
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your data really is only as effective as
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as you know the fact that you can make a secure.
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And clean and accurate database and I think we’re going to talk a little bit more about AI I assume that we’re going to talk a little bit more about it go to a conference and you think you’re going on a panel on.
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The best tacos in kin and it ends up being a conversation on AI and I think we all know that data integrity is really the first step in being able to harness these new AI tools.
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How does how did Butler till and iqvia work together to to do all this? I mean I like.
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It all sounds great, but how did when it comes down to to actually rolling up your sleeves and getting to work? How do you do this?
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so when we start with the Script data that Kimberly mentioned that is
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clean and pure that is ikea’s business. It’s we have deep.
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Data that we spend a lot of time cleansing and processing.
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When it comes to AI I think we’ve got a lot of experience at IKEA like 20 years of experience with AI to understand and process vast amounts of data.
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but Jen AI is the topic edcon right so Jen AI is only a year old it’s so funny like we we hire experts in Gene AI at iqvia all the time but
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you can’t find a prompt engineer with more than 12 or 16 months of experience because Jack GPT didn’t exist.
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so I think finding the right Talent
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using the right data.
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and bringing that together so that we can deliver insights to Kim at Butler Tale
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to activate and engage with hcps and DTC in a real meaningful manner is is
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How we worked it’s very true and I I think about a relationship with iqb in two ways. Obviously we’re leveraging a lot of the iqvia data to better understand our audience.
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Before we actually start running a campaign and then we also use iqvia to help us understand campaign effectiveness and measurement and I think through our partnership. We’ve been able to react faster because that’s often the challenge is that especially in the Healthcare space where there’s this lag to Action
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and you don’t really know you send the message out there whether it’s to a consumer or an hcp. There’s this period of time where they have to actually see a physician the physician has to write the script and sometimes. There’s a significant lag in that data.
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So you don’t have the opportunity or at least the same opportunity to make optimisations, but I think that we’re getting even more effective and
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faster at getting to measurement so that we can make those optimisations mid campaign.
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And not wait to the end of a campaign often to the end of the year to say. Oh, did that work? Oh, I guess maybe we’ll try something different next year.
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We can constantly.
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Kind of retool.
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And optimize for a Higher effectiveness midstream, and that’s that context helps you target better right.
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Absolutely it helps us target better. It helps us look at our return on advertising which of course is.
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Probably the most important metrics at least to our clients and we can do that on an ongoing basis. It’s not like a one and done type of type of thing where you look.
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Always in the in the background or in the past you’re constantly looking at the optimization how you can tweak it so that.
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You can be more effective ongoing.
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So, are you getting to the point where you are able to in a campaign for example?
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use predictive Analytics
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for efficiency you had been talking earlier about wanting to make things more effective and more efficient.
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How about predictive Analytics are they are they figuring in this for you?
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Absolutely we’ve built a tool which we call SEM which is really a scenario planning tool, but it’s based on predictive Analytics so what it essentially does is that identifies?
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the different possibilities of a marketing mix and the supplies to DTC or hcp marketing
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and then the likelihood of which scenario is going to be the most effective.
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So that you can really zero in on that targeting so that includes like it’s basically a media mixed model but it’s getting more predictive and accurate over time because we run the scenario. That’s most likely to.
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Be to perform and then we cycle the campaign measurement data back into that model.
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So that over time it’s getting smarter and smarter and more predictive in nature.
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Continues to learn exactly right right.
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And we actually have a great example of a study that I’ve campaign that we ran.
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On our platform and we use.
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predictive modelling and we use AI to understand hcps response to
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different imagery and different colours
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and we let the model train and learn as to this this hcp has a preference for this colour or a male or a female image.
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what we were able to achieve at the end of that campaign was a increase of
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0.5% on click-through rates which on banner ads is amazing.
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Um & so so we see AI and all areas of of our businesses now if that’s interesting because it takes the conversation that we were having around segmentation and personalization to whole new level.
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And when you’re trying to create relevant messaging sometimes you don’t often think about things.
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Such as colour and the ability to be more effective and reaching a particular individual.
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and I think in Healthcare we’re so restricted right because of mlr approvals because of regulations so
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we talked a lot about modular content dynamic content and early in the mlr process to make sure that you’re getting.
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Multiple versions of creative approved multiple messages approved, so you can truly achieve that personalization. Are you finding that that AI is helping the speed up the mlr process?
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Absolutely and now that you can train a model to understand and create new content from pre-approved materials.
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You can use AI to understand, what will get through the ML or process?
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That’s where we’re seeing our clients use AI a lot. What about you can and absolutely especially given the different regulations across States
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So when we look at Media like just Harnessing all of that data is a challenge in and of itself and so using AI to be more effective at getting through that mlr process understanding what you can do in which state so that you can be faster to market ultimately.
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Okay, so we’ve talked about a couple of different trends personalization and first Party data.
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There’s a third trend that that you’re seeing emerge. What’s that?
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Well, I think it would be really difficult.
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To not talk about health care data marketing technology and how we can use both of those things.
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in pursuit of better health
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equity and better ultimately better outcomes really for all of our patients at Butler till.
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We take a very patient-centered approach all of our clients take a very patient centered approach.
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And I think as an industry if we’re not trying to reach Healthcare equity we’re doing everybody a disservice.
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Yeah, I I agree. I think that.
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And again AI is a it’s a trope to say AI is double-edged sword.
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But it you know holds this great promise, but AI is predicated on data and there is an inherent.
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built-in bias to a lot of health care data
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how can you
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Basically use this Force for good to make sure that digital marketing efforts.
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Liked avoid that built-in bias.
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And help reach the right audiences.
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well
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again start with that clean and pure data but get to really granular data. We talk a lot with Kim about.
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Geographic targeting about really getting down to the Zippo code level to understand the best.
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Messaging and the best personalization to deliver to different Communities and different populations.
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You have to start with clean data.
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Clean data and accurate data and edythe we were having the conversation that I think often times.
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People don’t ask the questions enough in terms of where the data has come from and what the source is because we take for granted that the data we have is pure but you had referenced several examples where.
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There’s clinical data that entirely Emits whole portions of the population, so you might think that you’re working with a clean data set.
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And from a data perspective I suppose you have you are.
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But if it’s omitting data from a particular population, it’s inherently flawed.
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Absolutely so.
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it has to be
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has to be clean has to be absolutely comprehensive as well.
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How do you know this though? I mean this is this is the thing it’s like we’re.
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You know scraping reams and reams of data.
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right
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how do you know
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which is good in which is bad which is biased which isn’t
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is there any way to
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To scrub it.
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To to get better outcomes. Well, I think that’s when again asking the right questions understating understanding the data sources.
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And then making sure that the data sources if it’s coming from clinical trials for example understanding, what that sample.
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Population looked like was that sample representative. I think Edith you had a great example about reproductive.
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Medicine and clinical trials and the fact that it wasn’t even tested on females until the early 2000s is that alright do I get that alright? I think you got that right? It’s it’s amazing to to me but I think we’re making a lot of advances finally.
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In women’s health in clinical studies and you also had a great example.
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Steve that was the one around mice right. Oh yeah last week mmm. Had it’s women of distinction event and
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Carolee Lee was the keynote speaker and she delivered a great Talk That quoted a statistic about up until about 2016.
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There were ovarian cancer drug trials that were started.
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On mice and none of the mice were female.
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and the thing that struck me about that was just like
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this is bad science.
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I mean the outcome, you might have arrived at an outcome like a therapy that worked right.
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But just when you thinking about designing a study.
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You’d think you’d want to mix it up a little bit. Yeah, that’s absolutely maybe include both gender’s.
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Why not so listen? We’ve covered all of the points here. Is there anything else?
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While we’re here that you’d like to cover anything are there.
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With our other trends that you saw.
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Was there just the thought that occurred to you while we were talking that you think hey that would be that would be really relevant the one thing that has come up a lot for me at can as there’s been conversation around curations.
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Of digital media and making sure that there’s opportunity to reach the right talk target audiences whether you’re trying to reach.
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Purpose-led brands or minority lead brands or particular conditions when you’re talking about health care, so we’ve been really focused on the curation of Media both in terms of reaching the right audiences like for example. We’ve created what we call the conditions marketplace.
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So we’re aggregating inventory to reach particular patient populations.
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Again to be more effective with the targeting so you’re trying to reach again and an anonymised way.
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Those people that are most likely to exhibit symptoms from particular conditions so that you’re reaching them with the right messages. Can you give me an example of that?
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Yeah, so for example. We’ve created conditions marketplaces for
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Psoriasis so digital inventory, that’s targetable more towards patients with this particular condition again. We can reach them more effectively the media itself is more effective at eliminates wet waste and allows the messaging to be that much more relevant.
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One way that we helped Kim do this is we have an open ecosystem of partners so we come through our platform.
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access inventory with over 60 partners
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and to your point especially when we work in rare disease.
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You have to be able to engage that hcp or engaged that.
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DTC consumer are to make sure that you’re delivering a message when they’re looking for information.
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I love this concept of your condition specific marketplace.
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Great well, this has been really interesting the three main trends that we’ve been talking about are.
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personalization
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of Engagement with hcps
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the increasing importance of first Party data
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and health equity which is hopefully it’s it’s more than a trend. Hopefully. It’s a good way of just becomes. Just a way of doing business for us.
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My guess is on the MM+M podcast.
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Have been Kimberly Jones president and CEO Butler Till.
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And from iqvia, Edith Hodkinson the head of digital strategy for IQVIA digital enablement.
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Thank you so much for being here. This is a great talk. Thank you Steve thank you so much.
