0:00 spk_0
In terms of how we stay authentic, um, our goal is to help advertisers and brands and our affiliate partners accomplish their goals. Um, that’s not about black, white, brown, or blue. That’s about green.
0:18 spk_1
Welcome to Financial Freestyle here on Yahoo Finance, and I’m your host, Ross Mack. And look guys, no matter where you’re at in your journey financially, you can never stop learning. And that’s why I’m talking to some of the biggest goats, some of the most influential people in the world of finance, media, etc. and today’s no different as I’m sitting down with my guy, my dog, Detavio Samuels, CEO of Off Script Worldwide and Revolt.
0:41 spk_0
How you doing, baby?Yes, man, it’s good to be here. Long time coming.
0:44 spk_1
I know, man. I just want a one now that we’re on camera. Thank you for everything you’ve done for me. For y’all don’t know, man, I got a show on Revolt, so I’m obviously honored to be sitting down here talking to you on Yahoo today. Yeah,
0:56 spk_0
man, it’s good. It’s always good to sit down with family, and you’ve been family since I’ve been there in 2020, man. I always love to work and so honored to be here with you in the seat.
1:04 spk_1
Without a doubt,man, so let’s kick it, right?What what would you say your view on traditional media is, right? And more importantly, how it’s evolving? And then what do you actually think it’s going to look like in the next 3 yearsor so? Yeah.
1:17 spk_0
Our view of Revolt in our script is that this is the era where creator media is bigger than traditional media, right? Creator media has all of the audience, it has all of the trust. One of the examples I like to use all of the time is when people talk aboutHow our current president won the election. One of the biggest things that they point to is he wasn’t going to the ABCs and the CBS’s and the NBC’s. He was going to the Joe Rogans and the Theo Vons, right? It’s those creators. And so what we know is that today people are more interested in people than institutions. And so that’s why at off script and at Revolt, we’ve been betting really, really, really big on creators.Because we absolutely believe that the future is media of the people.
1:58 spk_1
Without a doubt, right? I’ve seen you guys be early into the creator world,you know what
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I
2:03 spk_1
mean?Obviously, I would like to say I’m part of that world, but obviously you’ve worked with the likes of Drewski and even just most recently we saw Kaya not do us 30 days, right, of whatever the stream mafia, right? But what’s insane is the wayYou know, marketing and advertising is now being integrated within a different realm, to your point, like Trump, you know, going on, whether it’s the milk Boys and Theoon and all those guys. So like when you think about kind of streaming and you know social media, etc. likeHow should a creator start thinking about their own IP and more importantly, how should they think about monetizing that for for the creators that’s watching this?
2:44 spk_0
Yeah, I think early monetization for most creators really is kind of anchored in social media. And to your point, really, because you can’t run ads in front of social, the biggest way that they can do that is it’s brand deals and it’s integration, right? I think that’s a great starting point. I think after that, creators have to start.thinking about how they expand their platforms. And so one of the biggest places that we’ve been looking at is really betting on creators who have significant YouTube channels. We’re one of the few people who have the ability to monetize a YouTube channel, right? So we can run our own ads, which we sell at higher CPMs on other people’s YouTube channels, right? So building out your own YouTube channel, now you can run ads. Now it’s sponsorship. Now it’s ads, not just integrations, right? So I think you’ve got to think aboutHow do you start expanding beyond integrations into integrations and media. And then from there, it’s really thinking about um you know how you want to leave your mark on the world. I think that’s the content IP that you’re going to create, that you’re going to try to get to the revolts or the streamers or places where you could probably get a bigger check um for the brilliance that your content creates.
3:46 spk_1
I love that. So now for the creators, right, because you just put me on game, like I’mSlacking on my YouTube. I am, I am holistically slacking. So I got to I got to get better at that. But if you were to guess in the next, you know, 3 years.And it’s probably hard to say because it might actually be something new, but I remember Gary Vee was beating the table to everybody right now, start posting on LinkedIn and then you start seeing the likes of you know Twitch, etc. So what do you think in the next 3 years is going to be the top social platform for creators? Yeah,
4:17 spk_0
I still think it’s YouTube. So when you look at the math and you look at where’s the number one place that people are getting attention, it’s in stream.Right? The Netflix, the Hulus, the YouTubes. And when you dive into that and you say, Well, where’s the number one place in streaming that’s getting all the attention, YouTube is number one, right? I think a lot of people think of YouTube as a mobile experience, but it’s actually the number one app on CTV meaning it is a full lean back experience for today, right? And so if you want access to the world’sEyeballs. If you want access to the place where all of the attention is going, YouTube really is. It really is that thing. And then of course, they are leaning in, becoming more and more creative friendly every single day. And so yeah, I’m telling every creator like you need to bet on YouTube.
5:02 spk_1
Say
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less.
5:05 spk_1
I told you I get back going. So actually talk to me, right? Let’s break it down because when I came over to revolt, right?This is in 2019, so I’m I’m in here. I’ve I’ve been here for the for the long haul. But let me let the world know what’s going on. You obviously restructured it this year to off script worldwide. So one, what was the impetus and more importantly, kind of what’s the new vision? Where are we going with
5:28 spk_0
this? Yeah. Q1 of this year, we announced a new company off cri worldwide, as our parent brand.Uh, what I’ll say is that for us, revolt was the proof point. So Revolt, you know, the way we talk about it is, it is a world class media company powered by creators. To your point, we’ve been working with creators like you um for quite some time. And so taking that proof point, we are now pivoting into becoming a creator company first and foremost. So the way that I would talk about off script worldwide is off script worldwide is aHolding company for the creators that move culture. It is a house, a home for the creators that move culture, but it’s powered by a world class media ecosystem. And we made that pivot, um, largely because the media game is difficult right now. When you look at it, it’s a handful of players that are taking out all of the advertising dollars when it comes to media. Um, so it’s your streamers, it’s your social media companies, and it’sIf you’re not doing that, if you’re cable, if you’re print, if your radio, if you digital, the game is actually quite difficult right now, right? And so everyone, you know 5 or so companies are taking 80% of the market and then everybody else is left fighting for crumbs. Conversely, on the creator side, you have a $200 billion market that’s growing double digits, you know, year on year on year. And then again weSee what’s happening in the culture. It is the place where all the attention is going. It’s the place where all of the influence is going. And so what we realized is we have a very differentiated product when we start positioning ourselves as a creator company. And so again, everybody is really only focused on the monetization piece, which we do, and I would argue we do better than others, meaning the way most people are going to do it is like, let me get you this one deal at Netflix, or let meGet you this brand deal. We can do all of those things, but on top of that, again, we’re helping them monetize their YouTube channels better. When they’re ready, we’re helping them launch consumer goods and consumer products and merch to help them drive. So we have not only do we have more monetization angles than others, we have all of the other things I told you before, world class production, massive distribution, all of the things that really help a creator or build their own media empire.
7:38 spk_1
When you look at traditional media, it’s like, OK, we’re going to put you on TV and that’s kind of that. Then you’ll have the agency handle all the other deals, kind of, we just want you on air and from there. So you effectively looking at it, we could take you from A to Z and here’s how. So like walk me through likeInsert raw smack, right? How do we you know get Rawsmack a Netflix deal and get him a household brand deal with a JPMorgan or something like that? What’s that look like and kind of what are the metrics and you know from an IP standpoint, what’s that look like? How are you guys getting things done like that?
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Yeah, I’ll utilize what I consider right now to be our case study, which is Camron, right? So Cameron launched a show Talk withon YouTube last year. Probably did 8 to 10 episodes, but was able to prove that he could build real audience for that show, right? That became the impetus for us to sign him on a licensing deal, right? So now we license Talk with Fle. That’s on Revolt, Linear, YouTube, right? All of that. All right. So that’s part one of the deal. Now you start saying, how do you build and expand with this creator, right? Um, so step one was, he wasn’t taking the show in thePodcast into audio, right? And so now we’re extending that show into audio, which allows him to make more money, allows his fans to find him wherever he is. He’s got one of the top podcasts on in audio right now. 2, like this man is a creative studio, and that’s one of the things that we’re really looking to bet on, which is, to your point, it’s not about a singular show. Who has the capability to put out show after show after show. Maybe even who, to your point, like who got the infrastructure.Right? To be able to put out show after show. So Cam’s got an incredible history. He’s got cult classics, movie classics like Killer Season, right? So the ability to take all of that content and now that lives on revolt linear, right, and to other ways to expand a partnership. On top of that, we have a content output deal with Cam, right? And so what I’m hoping to be able to do in the next year or so, um, is partnering with Cam to go get him a deal at 2B. Go get him a deal at BEC. Go get him a deal at Netflix.Hulu because he absolutely has the capability and a proven track record of producing movies that pop. For us, the old model was, to your point, let’s just bet on the show. The new model is, let’s bet on Cam and figure out how we build from there. On top of that, his YouTube channel, Welcome Home, joined our YouTube network, right? So now we’re helping to make more money there, right? And so that for me is really the focus of our script. We’reLooking for the dopest creators in the culture who move culture, who shape culture, um, who have this like creator studio capability. And then the question becomes, how do we partner together to help them build the media empire of their dreams?
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Obviously, from a traditional media standpoint, obviously they needed to be some level of you know evolving to take it to the next level. But look, we’re going to take a quick break and when we come back, we’re going to have more with Detavio Samuels.All right guys, welcome back to Financial Freestyle. We’re sitting here with the GOAT himself, my brother Detavio Samuels. So look, man, I actually, you know, I admire Cam and and more importantly, the vision of how you guys are thinking about expanding Cam on the actual brand, right?And I remember you guys had Cam, you know, be CEO for a day. So it’s the only way we got to talk about the elephant in the room, man. Dame Dash, was he ever CEO or going to be CEO? Was he ever about to buy arevolt? Talk to me.
11:09 spk_0
Yeah. So what I’ll say is a couple of things on that point. Um, one, what I won’t do is kind of go back and forth in the way that Dame is doing in social media and in the court of public opinion trying to share what would have been, what could have been, and whatOur conversations were. Um and I won’t do that honestly because I have too much respect for Dame as a pioneer in hip hop. I am a child of the 90s, a child of the early 2000s. Hip hop made me and Dame did so much to contribute to the culture that became my lifestyle. And beyond that, I also think I give him a lot of credit for inspiring many of us to become entrepreneurs and to become owners, right? And so because of who he was and because ofWhat he built. That’s why you won’t see me going kind of tit for tat with him out in the marketplace. I’ve watched black culture. I’ve watched hip hop culture destroy itself from the inside out, and I refuse to be a part of that game, right? What I will say is that I am looking for the opportunity to make this a teachable moment for the culture. Um, you know I saw him the other day saying something about he said Revolt had 70 to 90.million dollars of debt, which means we had no assets and no values. It was an incredible moment to be able to talk to our people and help them understand, if you’re able to unlock $70 to $90 million of debt, you have to do it only because you have assets, right? Most banks today are loaning out somewhere between 1 to 3 times profit. So in order for you to have, let’s call it $90 million in debt, you have to be running a company that’s delivering $30 to $90 million.Dollars on profit, and then you can’t then say that that company has no value, right? And so I think this is a really incredible opportunity for us to be able to take some of the conversation that’s happening, use it in the teachable moments, not only help build our business acumen and understanding, but also help us learn how to tease out misinformation when we hear it. Right? The two ideas conflict. You have $90 million in debt, but you have no assets, right? I need my people to be able toHear those types of things and hear those types of conversations and immediately understand that those two things can’t be true.
13:20 spk_1
I take my hat off to the way you articulated that because quite too often, right? It is, and we fall victim to it too. It’s like whether it’s clickbait, no matter what it is, right now, Cardi B and Nicki Minaj going. Right before that it was Cam and Dame. The fact that you know black media shouldhave much more responsibility and what they’re pushing, what narrative they’re creating, right? And so the fact that you articulated in that way, my hat is off to you.
13:52 spk_0
I appreciate you. Can I say something on that one too? So like whereas I won’t say anything about Dame, where I absolutely have a challenge with this with Vibe magazine, to be a black serving, black targeted media company and to be contributing to the spread of misinformation. There’s a whole quote and vibe thatNever came from me, myself, came out of my mouth, and it took us 48 hours to get them to take it down, right? That to me is a company that is serving our people, that’s doing us a disservice by willfully deploying misinformation, right? So I won’t say much about Dame, but I got I got beef with the way that vibe,
14:31 spk_1
that’s real. So all right, so now we’re going to get some kick it to the investors that are watching this, right? And you know.I look at investing as almost like hockey. You don’t skate to where the puck is, you skate to where the puck is going, right? And so unless you’re on a rock.You need to know that gaming is coming, right? And so just, you know, this past week it was announced that the largest ever leveraged buyout by Saudi, Saudi Arabia was buying EA Sports, right? I want to say over $55 billion or something, right? And so you guys also just bought a gaming company. What should the world know about gaming? What do you see it in the next 3 to 5 years? And clearly you just purchased it, soYou got to be bulled up on themarket. Yeah.
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The opportunity in gaming to me is massive. Again, we are in the attention economy. Everyone’s playing an attention game. And so first piece we kind of talked about was, you know who’s winning and streaming, where’s a lot of attention going on that side. Gaming is taking up a massive amounts of attention. And it’s also not passive attention, right? You’re watching the big screen, you’re on your phone. It’s passive. With gaming, you have people who are locked in andFocused. And so the opportunity to tap into a super engaged audience in the moment, um, I think makes gaming a really incredible opportunity for advertisers, right? And so you think about um what you can do from a product standpoint, selling games. You think about what you can do from an advertising standpoint, selling games. You think about what you can do from an integration standpoint to build other IP and things up that you may.We want to be growing. And so we just see gaming as a massive, massive opportunity in the market. The company that we acquired is called Threela. massive. It’s 100 creators that are all focused on gaming. Our scale with Threeblack dot alone is they’ll probably do 2 billion YouTube views this year alone, right? And so for brands who are out there looking for real scale and real attention, like this is the answer.
16:28 spk_1
You completely vertically integrated. We get Revolse Sports, we get gaming, we got the label, right? Because he said he’s going to distribute some of this Ross Mac music and Rossy Mac music on there is lit. But actually, you know. Can we
16:42 spk_0
talk about the label though? Because I don’t think we talk about that. So yeah, so earlier this year, our first announcement was the launch of 440 Artists, which is a music distribution company, right? And so again, what we’re trying to do is build the best playground for creators. You want to go streaming, you want to go premium content, you want to make music. We want to bethe home for people to be able to do that. I would love to distribute your album. I’d love to distribute that and make that happen. But the reason you see us playing in this way is not just because we believe it’s what’s right for creators and we want um creators, specifically black creators, to be able to go wherever their dreams take them. Um, on the other side of it, it’s a massive opportunity for our advertisers. So what we see when we talk to our advertisers are, where are the places that they are betting on youth culture? It’s sports.It’s music, it’s gaming. That’s why you see us betting on those three places, right? And so we have a two-sided network. We’re trying to connect all these amazing creators and the audiences that follow them to the brands and the advertisers on this side. And so being very intentional around what is this audience looking for that we can then bring to this audience and then create something that’s beautiful and special.
17:49 spk_1
All right, soyou talked about advertisers, so I actually want to talk about that, right? Because one of the biggest taboo words this year due to obviouslyThe current administration has been diverse diversity, right? And you’re seeing um a lot of brands effectively kind of pull back their allocated dollars that they would have been spending with, you know, diverse companies. So can you speak to that? How do you remain authentic to the culture while simultaneously trying to balance, you know, you get all the way from the top down, from the administration and attack on kind of DEI and diverse spending? Like how are you remaining authentic within all ofthis?
18:27 spk_0
We knew this moment was coming. So as black media started enjoying this really incredible moment, 2021, 2022 into 2023, always had a belief that the next president in office was probably going to be Trump, but regardless, it was going to be red and not blue. And so whenever there’s a massive shift like that in the administration, you know that things are going to change. What I forecasted or what I originally predicted was we had gone from a place where black owned media was one person ofThe market and we had gotten to 2% of the market. My forecast or my hypothesis at that point in time was that advertisers were going to leave us flat. Again, you’re talking about 2%, 2 pennies out of your advertising budget, right? I thought that they’d leave us flat. What I was shocked and what I got terribly wrong was they didn’t leave it flat. They actively started rolling back, right? So when we look at the data and when we look at the math coming out of 2025, what I’m going to bet we see is we go from 1% of the market to 2% of the market.Get back down to 1.5. so I didn’t see that coming, right? And a lot of that was just done because um pure fear. You know, I think that the hallmark of this administration is all around sowing chaos and disorder, um less about whether they really win in court, less about like I don’t even think they care about all of that piece. It’s how do you sow disorder. Um, by the way, side note, while you are running a whole bunch of policy stuff on this side that people are looking at, right? a misdirection play.Um, but I was shocked to see the disorder that happened in marketing companies across the nation. I started my career out in medical devices and pharmaceutical marketing. It’s like a highly regulated marketing. It was weird to see, to your point, retail, consumer, it became highly regulated. Lawyers started taking over the conversation because people were so nervous and afraid of what was.Happening with the administration. And so created a bunch of chaos and sold a bunch of chaos within within the machine. One thing I want to say there is, um, while there are a bunch of brands that have announced that they quote unquote rolled back DEI, what I want this audience to do is not look at what people’s words are, go look at what their actions are. There are a lot of people who rolled it.Back, quote unquote, to hide from the Trump administration. But if you look at their deeds and their actions, there probably hasn’t been shifts. In fact, some of these people who are out here talking about rolling back DEI I’ve actually will watch my budgets grow with this year, right? Um, Conversely, there are going to be brands who are standing for DEI and who still aren’t giving me a penny, right? And so what I want audiences to get good at is, don’t just listen to what youHere, go watch their work, go check their deeds, go see what’s happening. Um, so that’s one piece. The other piece that I’ll say kind of to answer your question in terms of how we stay authentic, um, our goal is to help advertisers and brands and our affiliate partners accomplish their goals. Um, that’s not about black, white, brown, or blue. That’s about green. And so when you’re walking in with 2 billion YouTube viewers, 100Plus of the dopest creators that actually move and shape culture. It doesn’t really matter what the color is. Um, it’s the infrastructure and the system that helps them meet and drive their their goals. And so we’re able to stay authentic. We’re able to stay exactly who we are and exactly who we want to be. I also think Acri gave Revolt permission to be able to kind of stay true to who Revolt is as we expanded and off script up here, allows revolt to be who it is on the bottom.And so, um, yeah, authenticity hasn’t changed, being unapologetically who we are hasn’t changed, and moving the needle for brands and advertisers and our affiliate partners hasn’t changed. That’s one way to close it out. I’m happy to hear that.
22:15 spk_1
Ijust want to really thank you for coming over here, coming onto my show, man. This means the world,
22:20 spk_0
man. It’s an honor to be here. You through Revolt. We have become friends and so an honor.To be here, brother. Thank you for making it happen.
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Oh man,that’s it for this episode, ladies and gentlemen, here with the goat himself, the Tavio Samuels. But listen, make sure you guys like, subscribe, tell your auntie and your cousins, and if you’re at home, you can also listen to us on Amazon. Just say, Hey Alexa, let me go ahead and listen to that new financial freestyle. That’s it for this episode. We’ll see you next week, ladies and gentlemen. It’s your boy Ross Mack.
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This content was not intended to be financial advice and should not be used as a substitute for professional financial services.
